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The Madonna Lectures - The Fucking Bluebird of Goddamn Happiness [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Zoethe

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The Madonna Lectures [Dec. 12th, 2006|08:52 pm]
Zoethe
[Current Mood |amusedamused]

I admit that when my children were little I was a bit of a boob nazi. It was breast milk or nothing for them, the first six months, and then we happily nursed for much longer than is generally considered acceptable in the U.S.

Nevertheless, I can never imagine either of my girls giving the kind of impromptu education on the topic that this little Mary did in the midst of the school Christmas play.

For one thing, it could never have happened in this country unless it was in private school, and there probably would have been a stroking-out teacher or nun to interfere with the whole thing.

This is precious. I'm still giggling.
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Comments:
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[User Picture]From: queeniex
2006-12-13 02:04 am (UTC)
omg that is so cute lol
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[User Picture]From: fragiletender
2006-12-13 02:23 am (UTC)
Ha, that is so great, I love all the bits about not faffing around in Tesco's if you don't have to. Quite right too.
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[User Picture]From: tonights
2006-12-13 02:27 am (UTC)
"You forgot to put it on the donkey."

BRILLIANT.
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[User Picture]From: celticdragonfly
2006-12-13 02:35 am (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 02:46 am (UTC)
They're both so cute!!!
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[User Picture]From: yndy
2006-12-13 03:15 am (UTC)
I'm still giggling at it hours later...
too funny...

"faffing about Tescos!" *snork*
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 03:26 am (UTC)
So glad you pointed it out!
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[User Picture]From: roniliquidity
2006-12-13 03:42 am (UTC)
I'm morbidly curious "what's longer than accepted". They're stopped now, right? :)

What kills me is I knew a woman who was still breastfeeding when her son was old enough and aware enough to grab her shirt and verbally for "num-nums" as a snack before bed.

I find the snack dispenser aspect inexplicably disturbing. I've never looked at a vending machine quite the same way.
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 03:49 am (UTC)
I would have been disturbing. ;-)
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[User Picture]From: mommeeof9
2006-12-13 03:58 pm (UTC)
Mine nurse until sometime between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 years old. The WHO says the average age of weaning worldwide is 4 years old. Once a need is met, it goes away, according to the child psychologists. If they still didn't need to suck on something, be it breast, bottle, finger or pacifier, they wouldn't do it.
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 04:02 pm (UTC)
That was the range of time for mine as well.
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[User Picture]From: roniliquidity
2006-12-13 04:35 pm (UTC)
See, not that I'm all up on child development, but I thought that was fairly normal. I was think you kept going until like 5. :)
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 06:18 pm (UTC)
Well, they can definitely ask for it by 3!
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[User Picture]From: mommeeof9
2006-12-13 04:57 pm (UTC)

OT

You know the answer to this question, I hope. Do local school systems fall under state or federal law? My school superintendent says she does not have to follow state law that allows me to nurse anywhere the state owns, maintaines or administers. She says as the schools are owned by the local school board, they are exempt from this law. What? They follow all the state department of education guideline for testing, education standards, etc.
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[User Picture]From: forestfire
2006-12-13 05:08 pm (UTC)

Re: OT

They are governed by state law, but she might be right in thsat they are not always considered state run facilities... I'm sure Zoethe would know better in OH, but in NY it can be a grey area of law to determine to what extent a school is a state favility rather than a local or county facility.
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[User Picture]From: mommeeof9
2006-12-13 05:17 pm (UTC)

Re: OT

State and federal employment laws say she can't discriminate against her employees due to sex-which the define as pregnancy, birth or any related condition. Do they apply to other people or just employees?
I just sent her a reply to her apology letter, asking if she required all infants to be fed out of sight in a private office, or does she just discriminate against breastfed ones. I also CC the principal at the jr high, the schoolboard president, the state school board director, the state department of education, and my state government representatives. I reminded her of the laws governing her employees and asked her to consider whether her policy was discriminatory. We'll see what she says. The boob_nazis and breastfeeding communities say we should have a nurse in and contact the national media...
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[User Picture]From: forestfire
2006-12-13 05:29 pm (UTC)

Re: OT

I think you might win at court, but I know that federal employment law actually allows certain discriminations on pregnancy and lactation. Which is not to say that I think its right, only that federal law surrounding pregnancy can be very inconsistent because pregnancy is considered a legitimate grounds for certain classifications and not for others.

That being said, even if she is "right" on the law, its unlikely that a Court would uphold the decision under public pressure. If you are willing to take the fight to the level of major media or to litigation, I think that you will prevail. That has more to do with my sense of future trends than my knowledge of legal precedent (although OH law is a blank book for me).

This case, though, definitely wouldn't fall under employment law because as you noted it would only protect employees. I think you'd be stuck with a core constitutional issue with a rational basis thresshold, unless a Court would define schools as state facilities (they are run off state taxes, correct? so this seems likely). The trouble is that I can think of several "legitimate" reasons for treating breast and bottle fed babies differently, none of which I personally believe. This is really a matter of activism, not legalism... although law can be manipulated for activist purposes. Just the threat of media exposurte might be sufficient.

I hope you do push it, btw. Good luck.
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 06:21 pm (UTC)

Re: OT

I think she's bluffing. School boards are local, which puts them under the purview of state law. If there is not a state regulation that actively allows you to nurse, then she can try to throw her prejudice around, but if there is - and unless it has a specific exemption for places like schools - she is out of line.

Which she is on general principle, in my humble opinion.
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[User Picture]From: mommeeof9
2006-12-14 12:30 am (UTC)

Re: OT

I posted my original letter, her response and my response to her in my journal a few weeks ago. See what you think of my response to her.
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-14 01:19 am (UTC)

Re: OT

I'll be interested in what she has to say. I'm not certain that Virginia law is completely clear on breastfeeding - it probably is a matter of judicial interpretation - but considering that other states have enforced similar laws in the way you desire, I suspect they will back down.
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[User Picture]From: laplor
2006-12-14 10:03 am (UTC)
Me too. 15 months (and only stopped because the feedback from the hearing aids was annoying, and he wouldn't take them off); and 27 months.

I always advise new moms to teach the child a word that they won't mind hearing shouted in the park/supermarket/church/older child's school.
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-14 10:46 am (UTC)
Um, yeah. My ex learned that with our first one. He referred to it as "suckies" even though I warned him that it was poor choice - and sure enough in the middle of church one day she howled, "Suckies!"

To which I answered, "Why yes, Erin, those are your sockies!"

And then excused myself and my confused child while my embarrassed hubby had to sit facing the congregation (he was the lead guitarist) red-faced and fighting horrified laughter.

He was much more careful when kid number two came along.
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[User Picture]From: kibbles
2006-12-13 03:47 am (UTC)
I love it, that's awesome! My daughter always nursed her dolls!
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[User Picture]From: zarex
2006-12-13 03:54 am (UTC)
I always like the term "lactivists".
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 11:15 am (UTC)
I'd never heard that! I like it.
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[User Picture]From: sparklie_lady
2006-12-13 04:45 am (UTC)
OMG...would piss myself with laughter except must have self-control, as currently nursing at keyboard!
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 11:17 am (UTC)
Sort of off-topic - New Years Eve: if you want, I will happily watch Piper while you go out to dinner. I talked to Karla about it this weekend, but I don't know if she mentioned it to you yet.
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[User Picture]From: pachamama
2006-12-13 09:35 am (UTC)
oh this is too funny! reminds me of when my eldest was in kindergarten, when she drew a classic nativity scene, except that instead of kneeling demurely by the manger, Mary was centre-stage, squatting, her face in a grimace, and Baby Jesus's head coming out from between her legs! that's my girl!

(and I breastfed 'til age 2 with all 3. go boob nazis!)
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 11:19 am (UTC)
Sweet!!! That's brilliant.
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[User Picture]From: kimmaline
2006-12-13 09:52 am (UTC)
LOL. Thank you. Keith and I had a phenomenal laugh about that.

I am not surprised in the slightest that you and I have similar breastfeeding ideas. I feel like I should have known.

I was going to email you, but Yahoo seems to be down right now. The gist of it was to say thank you for all of your support lately...I really appreciate it. You "get" all of this on a level that really no one else around me does...and that can be more helpful at times than someone having all of the "right" answers.

See most recent post. I took your advice, and am probably taking my last class for C/NC. I simply canNOT push myself at the level I have been...not even for another day. What you said kinda made me look at things from a different angle, and you were totally right.

Thanks, babe.
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[User Picture]From: zoethe
2006-12-13 11:22 am (UTC)
Hey, I'm glad I could help. You're going through a lot right now that is hard for anyone who hasn't been through it to comprehend. Better to take it a little slower and stay ahead of the game than to get hopelessly mired.

We're far too given to blaming ourselves rather than considering outside sources.

Hugs.
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[User Picture]From: miripanda
2006-12-13 02:42 pm (UTC)
SO freaking CUTE! I love it. I love it a lot.
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[User Picture]From: preitas
2006-12-13 06:18 pm (UTC)
My husband's aunt breast feed (& I mean from the BOOB) till her kids were 5. Curriously her kids were the most in trouble of the whole bunch O_o

& That is the funniest damn thing. I guess if you think about it, the christ wouldn't have been miraculously feed :P
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