Ugh, I am with you. I actually find it really obnoxious when lame, toned down stuff is dubbed "Women's Erotica." Because, you know, women like emotions more than men do and they don't actually like sex as much.
If you're looking for some badass female-centric erotica, try Alison Tyler's Erotic Alphabet series. It's really fun and each book centers on a different theme (B is for bondage, H is for hardscore, F is for fetish, etc.)
I agree. When it's me-time, I'll take the Penthouse Letters, thanks. I'm not looking for an emotional investement when I've got half an hour to myself and a vibrator with fresh batteries.
Internet porn for me all the way, usually various pervy story archives mostly filled with crap but a few gems.
2009-03-03 03:12 pm (UTC)
It's not you
yes it is,..;)
May I suggest the erotica on Literotica?
I've been writing for them for several years. Even though we are all technically amateurs, there is some really good stuff there. And there is a really neat list of "categories" - something for everyone.
I will definitely take a look. Thanks.
Can I just say: word.
Sadly, the Penthouse Letters/alt.sex.stories stuff all seems to veer a little too strongly toward the "fuckstick"/"meatrod"/"gash" vocabulary, and that stuff turns me off for the opposite reason: it's just too damn silly, like the anatomical pictures eighth-grade boys draw in social studies texts.
This is why I read PWP fic, romance novels, and Victorian porn.
I agree. those letters/that kind of crap doesn't do it for me, either. It's a big yawnfest.
2009-03-03 03:37 pm (UTC)
Guys Two Cents
I think writers of womens erotica work under the notion that sexuality for women is more cerebral then it is for men, so they sort of go all purple prose on the usual sheet twisting yelling for god(s)(ess) fuckfest that is sometimes all anybody wants when they're reading with one hand. I can't explain the "let's make the character a psychological train wreck" angle though, I don't get why anyone would think that's hot.
Edited at 2009-03-03 03:38 pm (UTC)
2009-03-03 04:11 pm (UTC)
Re: Guys Two Cents
I don't mind vivid prose, provided it's people who are actually having a good time. Though it sometimes gets in the way, definitely.
I need to steal your icon.
Sometimes it seems like people make sex too... difficult. :-)
Sex is supposed to be pleasure. Fictional sex is supposed to be ideal, if that's the point of the fiction. Angst is fine during the buildup, but lets get past that for the sex!
If I'm reading a novel about someone who has emotional issues, fine.
If I'm reading something that is intended to be a turn on? Yeah, angst free, please.
Maybe I should start writing those "Anonymous" books... they'd at least read a lot more like Penthouse Letters.... Hrmm.....
? I haven't been reading there lately so can't speak to recent quality, but I used to quite like it.
I have definitely skimmed talky erotica - there's a timetable involved, man! - but I can't think of any I've read any that's like what you describe. Somehow I don't think I'll go looking for it. Now I'm curious, though: would you quantify Anais Nin (I'm thinking Delta of Venus
here) thusly? That's the only thing I've read that does sound like this.
I certainly have read erotica I didn't like, but it's usually either in the forms of "so not my kink," "my disbelief can only suspend so high" or "eats, shoots a load and leaves" - tortured sentence structure and grammar are NOT the beautiful kind of agony.
No, Nin is dark but still sexy. It's a more modern kind of short story writing that I'm talking about, generally in short story collections. Even the Anne Rice "Beauty" series, which is a level of S/M that makes me wince, doesn't have the kind of angsty, here's-sex-that's-ugly-not-sexy stuff I'm talking about.
And your last sentence made me giggle wildly and in total agreement.
I'm with you... "women's erotica" tends to leave me annoyed. The bit I've dabbled in is either as you described... or does the annoying .
I want a scene. I don't even care if there's a entrance into the scene. (truly... I've written snippets for lovers where it began "... turning her over and etc "
I want harsher words. Lips of the nether region is... annoying unless done VERY correctly (as in period--er,time--related) like in The Pearl. Otherwise, I'd much rather hear more direct terms.
And I, too, have found my preferance leans to "Penthouse Letters". Quick, easy, done.
I do also like Literotica. And also asstr--though some of the stuff on there can go WAY WAY ick for me, so it's hard to balance.
On the other hand, I've also read some stuff that I'd've thought would make me go ick... but was really, really good. (The Wulf Archives, which I can't find anymore, is a great example of this.) (I figure someone, somewhere has them.. and with your readers.. it could well be one of them.)
Next time I see you I'm going to have to throw some Small Favors your way. Best porn comic ever because it's fun, 100% fun, everyone is having lots and lots and LOTS of fun. And amazing cute.http://www.colleencoover.net/?page_id=101
Ooo, definitely! I think I would enjoy that quite a lot. Thanks, hon!
I'm always glad when I see another woman write this. I sometimes joke about having the heart of a 15 year old boy at times but,for years I used to think I was a deviant and freak for preferring more traditional porn to what passes as "Erotica for Women". (Of course later I realized that I'm a deviant and freak for a host of other reasons.)
I think that part of it has to do with not only sexist assumptions that girls want love while boys want sex, but I've also seen some (unconscience, I hope) reinforcement quaint notion that women are somehow asexual or that their their sexuality is truly only released when they find "Twoo Luv" and that woman who are find sexual gratification otherwise are somehow damaged creatures.
Or that women who want sex just because it's fun are angry or aggressive or damaged. OR, that's it's not really pleasant and enjoyable after all.
If it was just mushy, I could roll my eyes and go on. But it's the "sexual woman must be victim or evil predator" or "sex is really bad, sad, lonely and isolating" aspects that exasperate me..
I fully agree with those who said Literotica.
I tend to also write my own stories. I admit they're cheesy as hell but I like putting my own fantasies down to revisit later. Plus I always know it's exactly what I'm looking for.
I used to have time for that....
Yay! I'm not the only one that thinks there's more than enough depressing drama in real life. :P
I write spicy romance, professionally, and sometimes veer into plain old smut.
It all depends on the length of story.
For 3000 words (about 8 pgs), names and a little attitude, and hot lesbian sex/a thornless rose used as a sound/semi-anonymous sex in a Peterbilt sleeper/a reverse PA piercing are adequate.
OTOH, for 10,000 words (about 25 pgs), I want some characters. I want some plot beyond "Two werewolves get together for Christmas, have a lot of sex and shop a lot." You can let the lesbians fight zombies in that length of story, or the werewolves deal with a take-over bid in their pack or an art student fall in love with the Devil.
And if we're going for novel length, I want characters, plot and maybe even theme. I'm not adverse to 19 sex acts in 200 pages, but I want them to have a purpose besides whacking off.
Penthouse forum these days just leaves me giggling over the bad writing. And most internet archives leave me cold. But I'm getting pickier about my reading material.zoethe
, hon, if you'd like a freebie, drop me a letter via my website
and let me know which one.Edited at 2009-03-03 09:35 pm (UTC)
Oh, definitely there are different requirements for different things. All I ask is that it not leave me depressed!
Good lord, of course it's them. Silly billies.
(Yes, I know. It's the old saying, "When they say, 'It's not you, it's me,' it's you.")
I once bought a book of women's erotica that turned out to be all by lesbians - and it was awesome. It seems a lot of the other stuff we wind up reading must have been written by men who have no idea what being a woman feels like, and hence, are unable to write erotica that we appreciate or can even identify with.
I like mine empowering and superhot, thankyouverymuch. Lesbians make the best smut writers! This deserves a new Nobel category. Yep.
LOL. I think this accounts for the popularity of slash fanfic. No damsels in distress, and twice the cocks.
That's a viewpoint I'd never considered! LOL!
I have to admit that I quit reading women's erotica when I found out how many guys were writing it... high school or college age guys. Blech. Kinda like phone sex. Would you REALLY want to be intimate with her or him if you could see past the voice and see how they lived?
I dunno; I was reading stuff that bragged about being written "by lesbians for lesbians," and it was making me sad....