Your second link is a locked post. Would you mind posting the highlights for those of us lacking permission to view the real thing?
had me right up until they got all "pagans enjoy their winter holiday more than other people". Excellent article, but yeah - definitely poorly ended. Though I allow, it is a livejournal, so I can't expect flawless execution.
Also - the second link is forbidden.
Just realized that the second was locked; put the text behind a cut.
And yeah, wrapping up is often tough.
Edited at 2009-12-13 05:44 pm (UTC)
Because there was so much historical accuracy in that movie. ;-)
"I can speak in an English accent."
He was? 'cos my understanding was the England of the time was most *definitely* a Christian country; my natural assumption would be that the Sheriff of Nottingham would be Catholic, because almost anyone who was anyone was.
ETA: oh, and the one English leader to actually call off Christmas (Cromwell) was most certainly Christian.
Edited at 2009-12-13 07:43 pm (UTC)
Remember that he was using that witch to divine the future? I think that's what was meant.
Not that such a thing would have contraindicated Christianity back then, of course.
Yeah, there was a witch. But he went to church! He was going to have a Catholic wedding! (er, am I mixing it up with men in tights again).
Well, that was exactly my point. He was an EEEEEvil Catholic.
Yeah, the whole pentagram, blood-ritual, raping a virgin, upside-down cross thing kind of gave it away! :-)
Raping a virgin played for laughs, no less.
"I can't do this with all that racket!"
"Do you mind? We've just been married!"
But isn't this all a side issue? I mean the real threat to the "spirit of Christmas" is consumerism and the selfish behavior it encourages. One of the saddest stories I ever heard was last year when that Wal-Mart employee was trampled to death on black friday. All because a bunch of people wanted to get some toy that their kid just had to have (or his/her Christmas would have been miserable?).
Oh, I don't disagree that there is way too much emphasis on shopping and consumerism. If that were the only issue I'd definitely be okay with it. But the hysteria of "nonChristians are stealing our holiday" is the issue.
2009-12-13 11:24 pm (UTC)
"nonChristians are stealing our holiday"
I thought they wanted everyone to celebrate Christmas and were whining about people saying "happy holidays". Are they trying to require IDs when purchasing trees now?
2009-12-13 11:22 pm (UTC)
This stuff really makes me want to channel my uncle's "Those #_
)*$@# preachers! NOW they're trying to horn in on Christmas!!!" rant. Edited at 2009-12-13 11:22 pm (UTC)
Hooray for the letter writer!
I just came back from a retreat (I'll probably write more about it) at a center where five eco-spiritualist, feminist nuns have many Christian events interspersed with Native American drum and sweat lodge events, us Buddhists and...hmmm, who could have been using that Celtic tree and Circle of Trees? I hope Ratzinger never finds out about them, but that's what Christianity could be. Restoring an old cemetery where enslaved Africans were buried, planting cypress in the swamp, they haven't gotten time to worry about whether or not people can wish them happy holidays. Sister Ursula for Pope!
Edited at 2009-12-14 12:34 am (UTC)
There is lots of "underground Catholicism" out there - if it hadn't been for that, I would have left the church sooner than I did. When it was yanked away by a suddenly-attentive parish, I felt betrayed.
A friend who was with me was telling how JP2 had Ratizinger (before JP2's death) stealthily wiping out the left-wing churches by putting conservative archbishops and bishops in place and then moving priests around, and that now there have been whatever the Vatican CIA equivalent is snooping around this place. I hope they survive.
I suspect that I am not the only one who's abandoned that mess. RATzinger was a killer before the white smoke, indeed.
Then stop shopping there on Sunday. If the store didn't make so much money on that day they'd close and let their employees spend the day at home with their families.
y'know, OR NOT, since that would deprive a bunch of people who can only work weekends of half of their income.
Other than that, sure.
Or you could not shop there on Saturdays, which would (taken to this illogical conclusion) allow Jewish employees to spend their sabbath with their families.
I am torn on this because I really don't want to work Sundays for my own religious reasons, and may face that hindering me in my career, but I don't care for the idea of places assuming everyone wants/should want Sunday off for religious reasons and closing on that day.
Blue laws used to be a huge problem for the Jewish community - they couldn't shop on Saturday, but weren't allowed to open their stores on Sunday, so it was impossible for them to shop on the weekend. I don't think they are really necessary. There are businesses around here that close on Sunday, and if that works for them then that's their prerogative.
Yeah... if a mom-and-pop store with five employees decides to close on Sunday, it's no skin off my nose, but it kind of worries me coming from big chains like Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-A.
If Chick-Fil-A wants to have that company policy, then they can have it. They are private and not part of the government.
We live in a suburban area near a major metropolis. It is a majority of white in the school district, but a simple reading of the music program participants is a jawbreaking process because of the cultures represented. In two concert evenings, call it two and a half hours of music, there was not one single Christmas piece performed. That bothers me.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
Can I steal the letter text?
Actually I will steal it and if you tell me later no-I will take it down-cuz I am too impatient to wait.
Certainly; I didn't write it and I'm glad to see it shared around.
I LOVE Christmas carols, and I simply adore going out caroling. (Not that I get the chance these days, but you know.)
I have a funny Christmas carol story. When I was a kid I was always in choir, but I went to a Jewish day school, so I never learned Christmas carols at all. But when I was in High School I was finally in a public school. Thing is, I'm an alto. So, I didn't *exactly* learn any Christmas carols then, either. I just learned the harmonies to a bunch of Christmas carols. So for a few years, until I finally took the time to learn the melody lines of some carols, whenever Christmas came I'd walk around singing "Ding, dong, ding dong" or other not-quite-right-sounding carol bits with great gusto, much to the chagrin of everyone else who didn't quite get it. :)
I love that "letter from Jesus"! It makes perfect sense to me that certain people spend more time fussing about, than passing the love around, in a season where everyone mouths "peace to all of goodwill".
May I pimp this out to my Twitter circle?
"Just because I am not Christian doesn't mean I can't love it."
Seconded. I'm about eighteen shades of non-religious and dammit, some o' them there christmas carols are just beautiful music. A thing is not bad/good because it's religious, or bad/good because it's not.
A thing can simply be good because it's good.
I'm not Christian either, and I make my living this time of year singing Christmas Carols!
What a great way to make a living!