?

Log in

No account? Create an account
And as an interesting corrollary to the last post... - The Fucking Bluebird of Goddamn Happiness [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Zoethe

[ userinfo | livejournal userinfo ]
[ archive | journal archive ]

And as an interesting corrollary to the last post... [Jul. 16th, 2003|02:03 pm]
Zoethe
[Current Mood |curiouscurious]

There are a growing number of historians who believe that there never was an historical Jesus, that the Jesus myth is a compilation of the messianic tales. If this theory could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, what do you suppose would happen to the Christian churches?
LinkReply

Comments:
[User Picture]From: theferrett
2003-07-16 11:11 am (UTC)
Duh. They'd disbelieve the evidence. Evolution, anyone?

Failing that, they'd find some other way of making the Jesus myth. Still, I'm skeptical as to anyone who claims that they can either prove or disprove Jesus; the cult was small in the beginning, and underground. The details are likely to be off, if they in fact ever existed, and he wasn't big until a hundred years after he died.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: shawnj
2003-07-16 11:40 am (UTC)
and he wasn't big until a hundred years after he died.

Try less than that. If you believe that Jesus died in 1AD, or as the popular assumption has it at 26AD, it would only be about sixty years until Nero was forced to deal with the Christian "problem" in 64AD.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: shawnj
2003-07-16 11:42 am (UTC)
It wouldn't matter. And honestly, I see no reason to prove it. The people who want to believe that Jesus never existed will agree, and the people who believe that he was the son of God will not. Same goes for nearly all of the analogous stories from the Bible.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: zoethe
2003-07-16 02:32 pm (UTC)
Okay, I obviusly should have made myself more clear. This was the kind of "what if" that peopel use for choosing three books for a desert island, making three wishes, etc. A hypothetical what-if it could be absolutely proven.

As it stands, evidence has no impact. For those who believe that every word of the Bible is The Word of God, it would be interesting.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: theferrett
2003-07-16 02:43 pm (UTC)
Okay, I obviusly should have made myself more clear. This was the kind of "what if" that peopel use for choosing three books for a desert island, making three wishes, etc. A hypothetical what-if it could be absolutely proven.

Like I just said to you twenty seconds ago, it's the kind of "what-if" that strains reality to the point where it's hard to imagine it. Considering that many of these people live in a vaccuum where they ignore all sorts of scientific evidence already, imagining the kind of proof they'd need would be, well, impossible.

Or, as I also said, "The only way these people would believe that Jesus didn't exist is if God told them personally. Which would open up another can of worms."
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: theferrett
2003-07-16 03:59 pm (UTC)
I should also add that when I say, "Like I said to you twenty seconds ago," I'm not being snippy, but rather informing everyone here that Gini and I are so silly that we discuss LiveJournals, then race back to post about what we just talked about so everyone gets in on the fun.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: danodea
2003-07-16 11:44 am (UTC)
I found Acharya S.' book The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Told an interesting read. Not quick, but thought provoking.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: zoethe
2003-07-17 03:46 am (UTC)
Another one to add to my list of books I need to read! Thanks!
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: of_little_note
2003-07-16 12:40 pm (UTC)
Nothing would happen to the Christian churches. There belief is based on Faith.

Since I attend church, I should say that my belief is based on Faith.

Besides, who is so trustworthy that they could present the proof that Jesus is a falicy and be believed?
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: shawnj
2003-07-16 12:51 pm (UTC)
I wouldn't discredit the archaeologist's motives behind this. Having gone through a portion of the schooling needed to become on myself, it's made quite clear from the beginning (and then is pounded in your head repeatedly) that they deal with facts that can be gleaned from objects. And conjecture or opinion is left for the anthropologists and sociologists, who also are taught to be as objective as possible. I think the people that wouldn't be able to beleive the findings (if they turn up to be that he never existed) have a hard time believing achaeology in the first place. The problem isn't the man, it's the mechanics (although the 'problem' is not one born out of enlightenment about the science of archaeology, that's for sure).
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: zoethe
2003-07-16 02:35 pm (UTC)
Like I said elsewhere, I know it will never be proven, this was simply a "what if" exercise.

I think a lot of people would still believe that the Bible is the work of God, but many would be shaken.
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: lothie
2003-07-16 03:11 pm (UTC)
I will bet they'd refuse to believe it. I mean, if they can ignore evolution...
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: correspondguy
2003-07-16 08:17 pm (UTC)

What if?

"Beyond a reasonable doubt," as we both know, is a pretty high standard, but does not mean "beyond any doubt." Unfortunately, faith, all faith, is beyond reason - it is the belief in things unseen and unprovable by rational means. The divinity of Christ is such a belief. Rational thought tells us that a virgin cannot bear a child; that death is forever; that water does not become wine; etc. So, the answer, IMHO, is that they would simply refuse to believe it, unless as the lovely and talented Rodent suggested, Jesus his own bad self dope slapped them, which is logically impossible.

Christians believe what they believe because they've already suspended reasonable doubt. So, they'd ignore the evidence, or raise specious arguments, as they do versus evolution.

What intrigues me would be if someone proved that a) the New Testament is a forgery, or b)if there were many, many Gospels that were demonstrably more accurate. Or, if Jesus reappeared and said "No, no, you got it all wrong. I said the GEEK shall inherit the Earth." I'd be interested to see how much backpedaling would go on.
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: zoethe
2003-07-17 03:49 am (UTC)

Re: What if?

"Blessed are the Cheesemakers?"

[g]

Like I said, I think there are a group of people completely reliant on the notion that every word of the Bible is true, and they would flip out. But many would continue to believe.

Maybe they would be just a wee bit more humble, though....
(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)